Industry experts Ryan Calvert and Rebekah Mulligan from MCS, alongside Julie Holmes from Legal Island, explore the latest recruitment trends – and the path to building diverse, inclusive teams. While diversity is pivotal, it's just the beginning of the journey towards true inclusivity. Learn how to kickstart this journey by establishing a robust talent pipeline, then go further by fostering a positive workplace culture that embraces everyone. We'll equip you with strategies tailored for organisations of all sizes, empowering you to create inclusive dream teams that thrive. Get ready to be inspired by real-world examples that will fuel your drive to lead change and transform your workplace into a vibrant, inclusive environment.

Recording:

View Slides HERE MCS Lunch and Learn with Legal Island June 2024.pdf

Transcript:

JH: Welcome to our lunch and learn webinar, creating an inclusive workplace culture with MCS Group. My name is Julie Holmes, and I'm part of the knowledge team here at Legal Island. Today, I'm joined by recruitment industry experts, Ryan Calvert. Ryan - give us a wave.

RC: Hello.

JH: And Rebecca as well from MCS.

RM: Hi.

JH: Thank you. And they're going to talk to us today about building diverse and inclusive teams. There was a work institute 2019 retention report, and it said that as many as 43 percent of new employees left organisations within the first 90 days of starting. Today we're going to look at building inclusivity from the outset to create that feeling of belonging that will make people want to stay. Ryan and Rebecca have the inside knowledge gathered from their extensive network on how organisations of all sizes can create inclusive dream teams that thrive.

Ryan is the Head of Human resources, sales, and marketing recruitment at MCS Group, And Rebecca is a Specialist HR temp recruiter at MCS Group. Both Ryan and Rebecca are passionate about sourcing talent within the HR sector and working with a range of businesses.

Legal Island's webinars and podcasts are sponsored by MCS Group, and MCS helps people find careers that match their skill sets perfectly. They also support employers to build high performing businesses by connecting them with the most talented candidates in the marketplace. If you're interested in learning a little bit more about how MCS can help you, then head to www.mcsgroup.jobs

To start us off, Victoria is kindly going to share a poll for us first of all. And what we're asking you is about how confident are you that your organisation provides a positive and inclusive experience for candidates from diverse backgrounds through the recruitment process.

If you could vote for us, are you:

• very confident
• somewhat confident
• or now that you're thinking about it, not so confident (and that's why you're at the webinar today).

Whenever you're ready Victoria, if you want to go ahead and show the results for us please.

Okay. Somewhat confident, 68 percent. Ryan, are you encouraged by that figure?

RC: No. I think very confident you would probably not is surprising. Not surprising. That's probably the opinion of a lot of people that I would speak with. That's there may be not as confidence on their current organisation, unfortunately.

JH: Okay. Alright. Great. So now we'll take a look at the second question then. Just give Victoria a second to bring that up for us. Second question is about tracking diversity metrics. Does your organisation actively track diversity metrics? That could be gender, ethnicity, LGBTQ plus representation through the recruitment process specifically.

Your options for answers are:

• Yes, we've established metrics and regularly monitor them.
• No. We don't currently track diversity metrics, but we may think about that in future.
• Or we track some diversity metrics but not comprehensively.

Again, take a moment and just let us know what you're thinking. And whenever you're ready, Victoria. Just takes a second for it to come up.  At the moment, we have a majority that do not track diversity metrics through the recruitment.

18 percent not so sure, and then, yes, 35 percent. Rebecca, what do you think of those figures?

RM: Again, I don't think I'm overly surprised. I think those results are very accurate to what the market's like. I would say for us, we definitely do recommend having that in your recruitment process as it's really important to be able to measure where you are now, where you're going, and actually how you get there by putting those sorts of tangible metrics in place.

JH: Great. Okay. And as you can see, Rebecca and Ryan are confident that they have some strategies to help everybody and what I'm going to do is hand over to them. And again, we will send out a recording after the presentation so you can go back and watch anything if you like. And we'll also send the slides as well. Okay? I'll be back with you in just a little bit. And in the meantime, over to you, Rebecca and Ryan.

RC: Alright. Thanks very much, Julie.

RM: Yes. Hi, everyone. Yes. So as Julie referenced, Ryan and I are here today to discuss creating an inclusive workplace culture. I know Julie already did an introduction, but as she said, I would I cover HR recruitment in the south. And then well, Ryan can introduce himself.

RC: Yeah. No. Absolutely. I head up a few divisions for my sins, which include but actually an additional one on there. So the HR sales marketing and legal, which was a quite a recent, one. I oversee HR recruitment across sort of the island of Ireland, and Rebecca is very much focused on supporting our Irish clients, with ongoing HR recruitment requirements.

RM: Yeah. Perfect. Thank you. So this is just a a rough idea of what we're actually covering today. These are the topics we will go into a bit of detail for you. So starting off, what do we mean by inclusive workplace? Why is it actually important?

Giving tips on how to build an inclusive workplace in the culture, bit around the law and actually law that you can reference when you're building out these policies, and benefits to actually have an inclusive workplace policy. You know, what are these actual outcomes and then taking it back to the recruitment process. What's important to have? How do you build it? And how do you roll out in case of a really across your whole business? So, Ryan's is going to start us off today.

RC: Yeah. The slide I'm going to cover and it's sort of the first thing on that initial slide is what do we actually mean by an inclusive workplace?

For me, an inclusive workplace, it's an environment where all employees who feel valued, respected, supported, really regardless of their backgrounds, their identities, and their circumstances.

And it is a culture where diversity is acknowledged, and it's embraced, and it's leveraged for the benefit of both individuals and the overall organisation.

We've listed a few key characteristics here, that that we feel are really important, for an actual inclusive workplace with things like diverse representation, open communication, an organisation that is respectful and it's supportive of the environment, and also one that's focused on continuous learning and development.

And a quote that both Rebecca and I quite liked, which we want to definitely throw in the side is, it's feeling like part of a group might sound inclusive, but if an individual must conform or change themselves in some way to feel included, this is not true inclusion. So for me that just shows that as an organisation you do have to adapt to ensure that everybody in that organisation does fit included, and that will ultimately feed into a much better organisational culture, which has so many benefits, commercial benefits, benefits with doing attrition, as well as a host of other things that we'll cover off in in other slides.

RM: Thank you, Ryan. So, yes, Ryan covered there. So what do we actually mean by inclusive? And then now so why is it actually important? Starting off, different backgrounds and experiences will bring fresh ideas and solutions to the table. It also fosters a dynamic and competitive business environment.

Inclusivity in the workplace also makes employees valued and respected, which in turn will increase their engagement and commitment to your organisation.

This positive environment reduces turnover rates as employees are more likely to stay with a company where they feel included and appreciated. So, again, as Ryan referenced, that will bring into the commercial side of things as we all know the cost of recruitment can be very high in an organisation.

Talented individuals from diverse backgrounds are also more likely to apply for company or to companies where they see a commitment to inclusivity and equity.

It'll also help an organisation enhance companies with inclusive cultures, they build strong reputations as socially responsible and ethical employers. This positive image can enhance customer loyalty, attract investors, and create a strong brand identity. And then taking it so for multinational companies as well, an inclusive culture is essential for understanding and operating in diverse markets.

It enables better communication and collaboration across different regions and cultures, which in turn enhances global business operations.

Beyond business benefits, so fostering an inclusive workplace is a matter of moral and social responsibility.

It reflects a commitment to equality, human rights, and social justice, as well as contributing to the overall well-being of society.

Some recent studies, one in twenty fifteen, the McKinsey report on 366 public companies, find that those in the top quartile for ethnic and racial diversity and management were 35 percent more likely to have financial returns above their industry mean. Those in the top quartile for gender diversity were fifteen percent more likely as well to have returns above the industry mean. Another interesting one done recently was a global analysis of just over two thousand companies conducted by Credit Suisse. Organisations with at least one female board member used a higher return on equity and higher net income growth than those who did not have any women on board.

I think that that stat itself is quite relevant at the minute, especially with the the new legislation changes by gender gender pay reporting. So that's something we'll definitely see a lot more prevalent in the current market. So overall, an inclusive workplace is not just a moral imperative but it is actually a strategic advantage that can drive your growth innovation and sustainability in today's diverse and interconnected world.

Yes. Perfect. So, we've sort of covered off what the inclusive culture is, and, and we're now gonna look at actually how did you build an inclusive culture in the workplace.

RC: So there are nine things obviously listed here. We'll go into a bit of detail. And for me, this is really important because I'm confident there's a lot of people on today's call that they may not work for a global organisation that have teams of people that are dedicated to this. And this may be somebody who is a standalone HR professional that's working for an SME, and they have full ownership for creating, this particular workplace culture. And these are some of the key things to consider. So commit to inclusion.

It starts from the top.

So vital. So the leadership must demonstrate a clear and ongoing commitment to diversity if this is not being discussed at board level and at SLT meetings, it will never filter down to everybody else within the organisation. So, ultimately, you have to get buy in from the very, very top and ensure that the leadership team are completely committed to this.

You've got to educate. You've got to train staff. It is so important. Once you've got that buy in, you've got to make sure that you provide regular training on DEI topics for all employees.

Address things like unconscious bias, culture competence, and inclusive communication and training programs. This is not something that you just roll out once and you don't continually train employees on. Another really important thing is to review and revise policies. Regularly review workplace policies to ensure they promote inclusion and equity, update policies as needed to address the insights, feedback, and changes to legislation. It's important that you don't just create this strategy and think, well, that's me done. I'll check that in a year's time. You need to make sure that you're making tweaks, you're getting feedback from people in the organisation, and you're ensuring that this feedback is absolutely implemented, in in your overall workplace culture.

You'd encourage open dialogue as well. Foster an environment where employees feel comfortable sharing their experience, and ideas, and this can be done with a host of different tools. Some of the basic ones that jump to mind would be employee surveys, focus groups, and feedback sessions to gather input on the DEI initiatives to ensure that what the organisation is implementing is actually being well received across the company. The employees understand that you're committed to changing and you're committed to adapting what you're doing in line with their feedback and their expectations.

So really, really important. Another great thing is you got to celebrate diversity. It just can't be that you are it's in a box and it's really, really insular. You've got to make sure that you organize events and activities that really celebrate cultural diversity and promote understanding across the company.

Highlight diverse voices through stories and through internal and external communication. It's so important that as an organisation you do that.

Another thing is you monitor progress. I've mentioned before about reviewing and checking data and one of the poll questions was quite good. It was around actually the use of data. You need to use data and metrics to track the progress of DE and I initiatives, regularly assess the workplace climate, and and make adjustments based on these findings.

You'll never know if your strategy is successful if you don't have tangible data to measure success and feed that back to senior leaders.

Because senior leaders want to look at data, they want to understand the impact that this is actually making across the organisation. If you don't monitor it and use data, I would highly recommend that you do.

Also provide support and resources. We offer resources such as counselling, mentorship programs, professional development opportunities and ensure these resources are easily accessible to all employees and employees understand how they actually access them. Last but certainly not least is to encourage collaboration. Encourage cross functional and diverse teams to work together and promote an inclusive approach to teamwork and collaboration.

So that's something that's really important that it's not just one team that's really leading from the front, that teams are mixed up and there's a lot of crossover across different teams when they're pushing ahead with this.

And that's me on that slide.

RM: K. Perfect. Thanks, Ryan. So that'll take us on to our next point.

Now there are a lot of great resources for you to reference, the law whenever it comes to building or reviewing any of the policies and processes you actually have placed in your current organisation. So to start us off, there's a few current laws, that we find really good whenever you are, you know, reviewing your policies, rolling out any new ones, making sure you are up to date with any of the current legislation. There's some great resources you can actually use to make sure everything that you're using is up to date. So these are the few current ones. So the likes of the Employment Quality Act, your Equal Status Acts, your Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, Disability Act, the Protection of Employees and Fixed Harm Work Act, Maternity Protection and Parental Leave Act and then as well the Gender Pay Gap Information Act.

As you'll see in the next slide, there are some upcoming changes across 2024 to 2025. There'll be a lot of similarities across Ireland and UK with their upcoming changes, but some will differentiate slightly based on jurisdictions. That's always really important to make sure if you are a company that covers both UK and Ireland, that you make sure that the law is referenced that's appropriate for that jurisdiction. So upcoming changes in the next year or so: the right to request remote working, the right to request flexible working arrangements, and introduction to paid domestic leave.

One that we've seen the goalpost move quite a lot lately is the extension to gender pay gap reporting. It's changed quite a bit since 2021 where it affected employers with more than 250 employees. But from 2025, they are saying it will include employers with 50 or more employees.

Now this transparency is intended to not only meet legislative requirements but also to promote diversity and inclusion strategies within companies.

And then finally, the introduction of unpaid leave for parents and carers. The latest actual figures show that around 13 percent of people aged 15 and over in Ireland fall under the carers category.

Social Justice Ireland stated that carers in Ireland will provide an average of 38.7 hours of care per week and this is on top of their actual working hours as well. It's really important that these laws or these policies you're bringing out are going to be something that is beneficial to your employees as well.

Overall, the outcomes of inclusion in the workplace contribute to a much healthier, more productive, and sustainable organisational culture, which benefits both the individuals and the organisation as a whole.

Thanks.

RC: Brilliant. Thank you. I suppose we created the slides, but really, really good content there in terms of some of the legislative changes and the upcoming legislative changes that a lot of people need to be aware of. So, if you didn't catch any of those, just don't hesitate to sort of reach out to Rebecca or I. We can we can obviously share that content.

So, we've obviously covered off a lot so far. And now is actually, you know, what why is it important to have an inclusive recruitment process?

In terms of the inclusive recruitment process, it's important as an employer that you have this in place. It will give you access to a much larger talent pool. You might find that job seekers are looking, at this from they're looking for an organisation that is inclusive, that has this culture embedded, and that's important to them. And in terms of an employee value proposition, that's right at the top of the list of what they're looking for from their new prospective employer.

We've seen post COVID the ‘Great Resignation’ where so many employers lost talent, and they could not rely anymore on just upping their base salary and improving things like bonus payments. So many other employers were, by default, given hybrid working and super flexible, working as well as well as a host of other benefits.

This is a really unique selling point for so many employers. So, it will absolutely give you access to more talent as well as help you retain more talent longer term.

It also enhances creativity and innovation. So you're getting people coming from different cultural backgrounds that will have different ideas and different ways of doing things, which is ultimately going to commercially benefit the organisation longer term and make the organisation much more successful.

It also improves employee performance and productivity.

I think that's something that we have seen in in numerous organisations that we've partnered with that that do employ a much more diverse, workforce. They tend to be much more productive.

And again, another point on, the actual employer brand and its reputation, so again feeding into attracting candidates from a much larger talent pool.

Your employer brand is going to be impacted very positively, and this is something that you can promote quite widely on things like social media and LinkedIn to show the types of initiatives that your organisation is doing.

Other things so it mitigates legal risk. It reflects a commitment to the social responsibility, which in terms of ESG in in general, it's a big part of a lot of tender processes for organisations.

And it's really important that it is part of an overall organisation's commercial strategy. So feeding in this into that ESG strategy again is so important.

It also builds a diverse leadership pipeline as well which I think is really important. If you do have diverse leaders, then they're ultimately going to be much more open to getting on board with diverse policies, and that will ultimately make the organisation's culture very diverse. And that's what you're looking for. You want to be incredibly open minded, and it also reflects the market and the customer base.

So that's what you want from your clients. That's what you want from people that you're looking to attract to the organisation, and it and it reflects the market that you're working in. So there's so many reasons there why it's important to have an inclusive recruitment process. We've listed it here, we could have probably gone all a bit.

And I think in in summary, an inclusive recruitment process, it is absolutely essential for building a diverse, talented, and engaged workforce.

It ultimately enhances the organisation's ability to innovate, to perform, and to grow while promoting fairness, equity, and social responsibility.

RM: So now that we understand the benefits, what is it we actually need to do to bring this into action? An inclusive recruitment process ensures that all candidates, regardless of their background, few suggestions as well, but certainly, as Ryan mentioned, you can reach out to us afterwards. We can go into this in more detail. But some of the top ones we think that lawyers we're working with at the minute are doing and rolling out in their organisation.

So starting off, defining your clear job requirements. So focusing on the essential skills and qualifications needed for the job and avoiding any unnecessary requirements that could exclude qualified candidates from diverse backgrounds.

Then, again, using inclusive language in your job description, so avoiding gendered or jargon heavy or culturally biased language. There are tools online like gender decoder softwares, which are rolling out to ensure job postings are neutral and welcoming to all candidates.

We also recommend promoting your job opportunities broadly. So that's not just advertising on a range of job boards and platforms, but what you could partner with organisations and networks which actually focus on underrepresented group on underrepresented groups. At MCS there a few months ago, we recently partnered with Orchardville and they're a charity to support people with learning disabilities and autism to overcome barriers to employment.

They come into our office offices and actually deliver training to all of our recruiters on how we can support an inclusive recruitment process from the beginning. So I know for us that was incredibly beneficial, pointed out a lot of things for us to be aware as well. So it's definitely something we recommend reaching out to some of these charities that, as we say, do represent groups that are underrepresented.

We also recommend the likes of, you know, implementing your blind recruitment techniques. So removing any sort of identifying information such as names, photos, and addresses from the CVs, and that will help remove that on unconscious bias. So, standardise standardising the interview process as well. You could use structured interviews with standardised questions for all candidates and then develop a scoring rubric as well to objectively evaluate responses.

Something that's really important and we're seeing more and more line managers do is training their hiring teams on unconscious bias. So that could be by providing regular training on recognizing and mitigating unconscious bias as well as encouraging hiring managers to focus on candidates' abilities and potential rather than stereotypes.

As Ryan referenced before, building those sort of, like, diverse teams are incredibly important. So you could have you could form a diverse hiring panel, which is, you know, they ensure the panel could be diverse in terms of gender, ethnicity, and background. This will allow a variety of perspectives to really reduce those individual biases. And then again, something that's very prevalent at the minute, provide accommodations. There's certain big employers in the news at the minute who provided accommodations to their recruitment process. So that could be, alternative interview formats, extended time, or excessive accessible technology as needed.

Everything should be taken case by case, but it should be something that companies are thinking of in building the recruitment process that they have the capabilities to do this.

RC: So we're closing in on the end. What can you do to help build an inclusive workplace? There's a host of different things.

One of the first things is policies. For me, policies play a crucial role in promoting an inclusive culture within organisations by providing clear guidelines and expectations that foster diversity, equity, and inclusion.

I think as previously referenced, some key considerations should be kept in mind when designing and implementing policies.

The first one is actually understanding diverse needs. Really, really, really vital when you're creating policy. So, do a demographic analysis, analyse the demographic composition of your workforce, you understand the different groups that need to be considered, and employee input. Gather feedback from employees through surveys, focus groups, and suggestion boxes to understand their needs, and also their challenges.

From a legal compliance perspective, so things like anti-discrimination laws, ensure policies comply with all relevant anti-discrimination laws and regulations, and also accessibility standards. Make sure policies meet accessibility standards to accommodate employees with disabilities.

You also need to use, inclusive policy language.

Be clear and inclusive in the language, make sure that it's simple, and also avoid things like jargon and it's easily understood by all employees, and also use gender neutral terms. Use gender neutral terms such as they instead of he and she to avoid excluding any individuals with specific gender identities.

So equitable access as well. All policies provide equal opportunities for all employees regardless of their background, and there are accommodations made to include provisions for reasonable accommodations and adjustments for employees with disabilities, maybe specific religious practices or other potential needs.

Also, employee resource scripts.

Look at providing support and funding for employee resource scripts to foster community and support amongst diverse scripts.

Ensure that there's inclusion in decision making, so involve employee resource groups and policy development and review processes to ensure that their perspectives are considered. You also need to ensure that you're flexible and you're adaptable.

Make sure that you include provisions for flexible work hours, remote working options, and parental leave to accommodate people with diverse needs, and ensure that there are regular updates. So, regularly review and update policies to reflect changing workforce demographics and social norms.

Also, it's important that it's very transparent and communication is clear. So clear communication is one of the most important things. Communicate policies clearly and regularly to all employees using the multiple channels channels rather, to ensure that it is properly absorbed and people genuinely get what's what's being, communicated.

And in terms of feedback mechanisms, create channels for employees to provide ongoing feedback on policies, and their implementation so that you're not just implementing something and open that that that's exactly what the workforce wants. You're getting that feedback and you're making changes. Your employees will absolutely appreciate that and there'll be more buy in overall.

Also, leadership commitment. I've mentioned this right at the start, and it's so important that you ensure leadership are committed to DE and I and because it demonstrates commitment through actions and communications, and it also encourages role modeling behavior as as people will ultimately look up to leaders in an organisation. And if they are operating in a certain way, there's much more chance of people actually getting bought in rather than a leader who is almost like, oh, look. Do as I say, not as I do, and they're not bought in. So So getting the leadership team bought in is is really, really important.

And lastly is just sort of impact assessment. You need to measure the outcomes.

Really, really important that you don't just assume it's making progress, and you haven't actually measured it. So you need to ensure that you develop metrics to assess the impact of policies on diversity and inclusion within the organisation and adjust this based on feedback that you're getting from the organisation.

Perfect. Thank you.

RM: So as Ryan covered there, you know, designing and implementing your policies are incredibly important. So once you have that stage done, what happens next? So next in the plan would be your training. So effective training on policy rule out is crucial to ensure that all employees understand and adhere to new or revised policies.

I'll run through a bit of an approach that we would recommend here. So starting out so your preparation planning. With this, you would need to identify your key stakeholders, rule out your training plan, and then create your training materials.

All of our communication strategy, so announce your policy changes and highlight the importance of them.

Then the actual training sessions, look at a variety of ways to train people. Not everybody learns the same way. Sometimes people like an in person workshops, others interactive training, webinars, and department specific training are really well received in an organisation.

As I mentioned, there are some examples of interactive elements would be role playing, quizzes, and assessments. Again, a lot of people learn by doing, and this will suit a certain types of groups that you will have that work for your organisation.

Again, offering support materials, so policy handbooks, have those easily accessed by your employees. This will allow employees to leave anonymous or sorry. This will allow employees to leave anonymous feedback. This is really important because then you can take this feedback away, reflect on it, make any changes maybe necessary, or maybe roll out training again if it maybe hasn't been rolled out properly to begin with. So, again, that sort of rolls on to the follow-up and reinforcement. So regular updates and reinforcement training are incredibly important if you want these policies to really make a difference.

Also, developing support system in the organisation. So that could be identifying and training specific individuals. So whether or not they're in the HR team or DE and I Officers who employees can approach with questions or concerns, especially in that training side where they're maybe not comfortable to put their hand up and ask questions, having somebody that's a safe person to go and speak to about any concerns or what these policies actually mean to them in a real life situation.

And as Ryan mentioned earlier on, leadership involvement is so important. Lead by example and communicate their commitment from the top down. There are also some technology that you can actually utilise, the likes of elearning platforms, which will allow you to track any training that's rolled out and, again, anonymous feedback based at the end of that too.

And last but certainly not least is something that we have referenced throughout the presentation and it's communication.

RC: So communication, it's a foundational element in building an inclusive workplace for several reasons.

Offering clear communication, it ensures that all employees understand the organisation's expectations, understands policies, procedures related to diversity, equity, and inclusion.

It also fosters trust and transparency within the organisation, and it demonstrates genuine commitment to inclusivity.

Using inclusive language in all comms helps ensure that all employees, they feel respected, they feel valued regardless of their background or their identity. And leaders who consistently communicate the importance of DE and I and they actually model inclusive behaviours, they set the tone for the rest of the organisation and they're ultimately going to drive cultural change, which is exactly what you're looking for. So, I suppose for me, in summary, communication, it's vital in building an inclusive workplace because it fosters clarity, trust, awareness, participation, and cultural change.

Effective comms ensures that all employees they feel heard, respected, valued, which is essential for creating a truly inclusive and supportive work environment.

So, for me if there's no point spending the time getting buy in from senior leaders, creating really really good metrics to measure data and ensure that there is progress being made against this particular strategy if you're not communicating the results back to your workforce.

And a strategy that's going to be rolled out and get everybody gets excited about it. It's a big stand up. You're bringing everybody in the business together and the strategy is rolled out. Senior leaders are brought in. If there's not follow-up comms to talk about progress, people will just completely switch off. You have to have that road map, and you have to ensure that you go back and you review and you tweak and you make changes based on feedback. And then, again, ensure that that communication is fed back to the overall workforce, that things have been taken on board, and tweaks have been made.

So you'd be glad to know that that's, I believe, concludes the presentation.

JH: What a presentation it was, Ryan. Thank you. There was so much in there, but you and Rebecca have packed in for us. So, just a couple of questions for you. One of the questions that's come in is have you seen an increase in outreach and partnerships in attracting candidates from underrepresented groups?

RC: Look. It depends. For me, it depends on the different organisations that because we partner with a whole host of different organisations, and you'll maybe find that might be more prevalent in smaller, more agile companies Okay. Startups, tech startups, some of the other organisations that we partner with who are would be global, and they have thousand plus workforce or large public sector clients.

They may be a bit slower to adjust. So I would say, yes. I've seen it probably more within the smaller organisations that are slightly more agile and can make those tweaks. For the larger ones, it's it tends to be just a bit slower to actually adjust, unfortunately.

JH: Okay. Thank you. Yes, as you say, I guess smaller organisations can have that little bit more agility, but we can all certainly learn from them. And, Rebecca, you talked a little bit about organisations like Orchardville about other resources.

What else do you think can help people navigate the cultural, social differences within the workplace as well? What else might be helpful?

RM: I I think being realistic about whenever you set your goals, you know, I think sometimes it's really good to have these great ideas of an end goal. You need to be that's where that constant monitoring and feedback actually is really beneficial because you need to understand how each stage is developing, and it's okay if things don't go to plan to begin with. I think you need to just be aware that things will be up and down. Feedback will be different, maybe not what you were expecting to be.

So just be conscious and be okay with the fact that this process can change straight away until you actually find policies and the culture you're actually trying to develop. So don't put too much pressure on yourself. It has to be perfect right now. Just take your time, do the feedback, work together as a team is really important.

JH: Okay. I think as you've said there, it's a journey rather than just a task that once you complete and then that's it.

Thank you both very much for that. You also talked about the importance of training and Legal Ireland, of course, we have a range of different eLearning courses for all staff, and one of those is the importance of conscious inclusion.

This course helps staff understand the importance of inclusive behaviour in the workplace, which Rebecca and Ryan have emphasised a lot in today's talk, and the value it can bring to both your staff and your organisation.

The course is jurisdiction specific. There is a version for Northern Ireland and a version for Ireland as well, and it provides comprehensive compliance training for all employees within your organisation.

And to register your interest, you can contact Debbie@legal-island.com  if you'd like more information.

And if you're interested as well in having your own company branded compliance management training platform, which has our entire platform of courses with unlimited access for all staff. You can find out more about Apply LMS on the legal island website as well. But as Rebecca and Ryan have said, they're there for follow-up questions. Definitely take a look for people on LinkedIn and follow us and connect with us as well.

And we've really enjoyed having you here with us today. Thank you very much, everybody, and thanks very much to Rebecca and Ryan as well. Great session as always. And we'll send you a link.

RC: Thank you.

JH: Okay, lots of things to think about. Thanks very much, everybody. Enjoy your afternoon.

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