Christine:  So, let's get into the Windsor framework. Essentially, the Windsor framework is a document that deals with trade, but it does have knock-on effects when we start to look at the Brexit Freedoms Bill, the Good Friday Agreement, which of course it's the 25th anniversary. There's loads in the news about that and I think that it's actually quite a good thing because it's highlighting that we do need to keep looking back to that document. So, Seamus, what are your thoughts on it?

Seamus:  So, interestingly, for anybody that is interested, probably one that we don't need to put up on a link for, but this is the framework here. I'll try to put that into a bit more centred into the camera there. A fairly readable and digestible document and it sets out the background. So, it's just entitled "The Windsor Framework: A New Way Forward".

And I suppose to bring things back to the start, the starting point for all of this is the referendum that we had. As close as it was, there was a clear democratic vote taken. There was a decision to leave the EU. So, we had the referendum.

And then after that, we had a number of the years where things were tried to be worked out. And what we did have essentially was we had the withdrawal agreement, which was the UK's agreement with the EU in relation to its withdrawal. And then part and parcel of that, then, came along with the protocol.

And if you remember back in the days of Theresa May and all of the difficulties that were encountered, really Westminster seemed to be having huge difficulties in trying to get anything agreed. And we then went through a series of various prime ministers that this issue has brought about. And finally, then, we have our existing Prime minister, Rishi Sunak, who has really taken steps to try and resolve the issue.

So, we had the withdrawal agreement. We had the Northern Ireland Protocol, and the protocol was there to deal with Northern Ireland's position as part of the UK leaving the EU. But it was also recognising the position in Northern Ireland, its position on the island of Ireland, and the complications that a potential hard border was going to have, which is set out within the Good Friday Agreement that there are certain protections in and around all of that as well.

So, these whole issues that were bubbling and coming together, the protocol was to essentially deal with those issues and have a movable way forward.

And then we had issues that arose in relation to the protocol. And outside of all of the political aspect of it, we had serious business issues that were affecting Northern Ireland customs, VAT, regulation on our goods. I think we all know that there were certain items that we just couldn't get or we couldn't get regularly within our shops, and then all the outworkings in relation to it.

Interestingly, what we had was the UK government took a fairly firm stance. There was a negotiation period. Negotiations were not fruitful, and we had the introduction, then, of the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill in Westminster. This was a fairly controversial bill in the sense that there were allegations put out that the UK were reneging on a prior agreement with Europe and that they were breaking international laws and treaties that had been agreed.

And the UK's position was, "Well, look, we will do this if we have to do it. But our preferred position is that we have a negotiated outcome here in relation to the protocol", which then really just brought about the framework.

So, we had the framework sort of announced at the end of February, and there was lots of political concerns in and around what the framework would mean for Northern Ireland, and particularly where my ears were pricking up about it was what role would the EU have going forward in relation to Northern Ireland and what role would the ECJ have in relation to that. And we were hearing various concerns across the board in relation to all of that.

But to break it down, the framework is now in place. If you go on to the government website, you can get a copy of the framework. You can get a copy of all the relevant documentation that goes along with it.

And primarily, the framework is about the freedom of movement of goods. There's next to nothing in the framework at all that mentions anything to do with employment rights and things like that. So that information is all set out within the protocol.

The protocol is still there. The withdrawal agreement is still there. But what we have is the framework that is moving us through those more tricky issues and thorny issues that we had.

So, from what I can see, Christine, certainly I don't see any of this documentation raising any concerns about employment rights in Northern Ireland and what's going to happen in relation to employment rights.

And sort of my straightforward approach on this is that we have legislation in place that is going to deal with how we are going to proceed with EU law going forward. We have mentioned it many times in our prior podcasts in relation to this bonfire of rights and particularly around the Brexit Freedoms Bill, or the Retained EU Law Bill as it's known, and how that would impact. We really have to go back to that point.

But you and I were talking just before we came on, and it's maybe just not going to be as straightforward as that. There are a lot of question marks. There are a lot of issues out there that haven't been addressed. And you had mentioned even this morning that Legal-Island has up on their sort of weekly roundup the issues that are arising as part of all of this situation that's coming along.

Christine:  Yeah, if you get our Friday Roundup from Legal-Island, you'll see that the Brexit Freedoms Bill, the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill as it's known, was supposed to be debated at Easter. I mean, when it was announced there was much fanfare. We did a podcast about it where I was on my soapbox for most of the time, I think. It has the capacity to be hugely troublesome and generate waves in employment law.

But they were supposed to debate it at Easter. They just quietly did not debate it, and it hasn't been scheduled again for debate. So, it makes you wonder are they going to step aside from it?

And I suppose how it links in with the framework is if the EU are going to trade with Northern Ireland, we have to have the same standard of employment rights as they do in their trading block.

So, the Brexit Freedoms Bill could wipe all our employment law off the statute book and we will not be compliant with that. We'll also not be compliant with the Good Friday Agreement, which obviously begs bigger questions about what could happen in the country.

So, it's interesting, Seamus, that they've kind of very quietly not discussed it and very quietly not scheduled it for debate again compared to the fanfare of its announcement, I think.

Seamus:  Absolutely. And just whenever I was looking at it as well, we know that there's the sunset clause within the bill, which will basically sunset all of the applicable legislation that has not been retained. So, government are to pick out the relevant parts of the EU laws or derive the EU laws that we wish to retain as our laws going forward.

I mean, if anyone listens to any of the employment podcasts out there, Daniel Barnett and all that sort of stuff, everybody is guessing about what might be retained and talking about issues. What will they do with TUPE? It could do with some refinement.

And there is an opportunity here for government, if they decide to retain, they can also revoke parts of legislation. They can amend it or they can get rid of it altogether just by simply not retaining it.

I suppose the concern for us is that this is due to happen at the end of the year. We're now into April, and that debate that was due to happen at Eastertime hasn't taken place and we're not sure what the next steps are.

Certainly, I'm coming up very short and shy in relation to information around what is happening with the proposals around retained law, who is dealing with that, what is being looked at, what are the bodies set up in relation to giving that consideration or consultation about it. So, it is interesting.

I did come across, then, that there was the Shadow Cabinet Minister, Baroness Jenny Chapman, and she raised specific concerns about Northern Ireland. And what she said was, "Look, there's no functioning government in Northern Ireland. What is going to happen to the specific legislative rights that are needed in Northern Ireland?"

And she raised a direct question with government saying, "Who is going to protect that?" Is government going to step in and put these parts of laws that need to be retained under their dashboard, as they call it, so that they are protected?

There's a severe risk here. I think that there will be elements that fall through the cracks, just as you were saying previously, too, in our prior podcast there, Christine, about that.

There was there a Labour MP, Stella Creasy, and she specifically asked the Prime Minister about that during question time. And he gave a response to say that there would be full protection provided for people in Northern Ireland and everything else.

But Jenny Chapman has come back and she said that her view is that there needs to be an amendment to the bill, and she says that it has to ensure that it avoids creating any barriers for the framework and for the framework to work. And I suppose that's those issues that we are thinking about from an employment aspect, from trading from north and south and all those issues that could potentially arise.

She had said certainly her view was that the sensible thing that the government could do would be to amend the bill so that measures can be revoked or rewritten without them just being the default of them falling off at the end of the year. And this sunset idea, that there's an element that government can take steps in order to try to do that.

I think it's around 4,000 pieces of UK law that's derived from EU law itself. That's all due to expire automatically in 2024 with this sunset provision at the end of the year. It does seem to me that there's a lot of work to be done between now and the end of the year, and how that's going to impact us as lawyers and HR advisers and where we're all going to stand with all of that. It does seem to be coming down the train tracks very, very quickly.

Christine:  Yeah, you would think they would be chatting about it by now, but it's interesting that they're not. But yeah, we'll certainly watch this space for it. It's very handy our Annual Review will be in November, so every session will be about laws that are getting binned maybe, which would be an interesting one.

Seamus:  I think that we definitely need to keep a close eye on what laws are going to be retained and looking to see if there are any revisions or amendments that are going to be proposed to existing laws that are going to be retained or what exactly is going to be binned, for a better word of it.

I do think matters have gone quiet recently, but I do suspect that the focus has been on the framework and to get that done. And now that that's done, we might see a push, or alternatively, we might have this silence retained and extensions provided to proposed legislation and all the rest.

I'm not quite sure what will happen, but it certainly is one that we need to get clarity on for ourselves here in Northern Ireland. And I suspect that that will be another push and cause for concern for trying to get things up and running again in Northern Ireland.